and if it's true of america, it's to some extent true here because the relationship between nsa and gchq. so i think the question for the head of mi-5 is the one that mr. halpert raised which is what is the forum in which this can be meaningfully overseen with people who have understanding of technology, adequately resourced, and understand the broader questions and broader public interests of civil society which are engaged by these questions. >> you're quite satisfied those who protect your country by gathering information and dealing with terrorist organizations like al qaeda, al shebab and other organizations have not been undermined by what you have done and those who sleep safely in our beds tonight could not be undermined at all by the guardian. >> the biggest threat is when you work a situation where there are people inside the organizations who are so troubled by what they see and are troubled by the relationship between the legality of what's going on and what engineers can now do. what president obama now said what they can do as opposed to what they should do. as long as they